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Talk:Angelic Bond
__TOC__ Does the redirecting damage effect ignore armour? type of damage is it Also, will Life Bond further redirect this damage? It would make sense for both to take effect...I believe life bone + life barrier works, so why not this one?-Onlyashadow 11:36, 4 August 2006 (CDT) :i'd guess, since this is a beta skill, that this + life bond would mean a 75% reduction in damage for the target, with you suffering (50% - life bond protection)+25% of the damage. --Honorable Sarah image:Honorable_Icon.gif 11:47, 4 August 2006 (CDT) :This is another case of "taking" and "suffering" damage and what does those terms mean. :As far as i (think i) know, "taking" damage involves armor resistance while "suffering" damage is mostly used in health degeneration (also receiving conditions) that definetely ignore armor. Life barrier and Life bond, both deal with damage "taken" by the ally member, so i think they won't strip down the "suffered" damaged. Ne33us 06:09, 28 August 2006 (CDT) ::And btw this definately trigger bals spirit, I used this on a bonder during the preview. I freakin boon bonded in RA and got to TA it was hilarious. (Not a fifty five 02:21, 20 September 2006 (CDT)) ::"Taking," "suffering," and so on aren't consistent terms in GW skills. Life bond says "attacks," however, which is consistent. Life bond won't interact with damage that doesn't come from attacks. Life barrier works on all damage (which means not life stealing, degeneration, sacrifice, and health loss such as from Grenth's Balance). But still, descriptions are often inconsistent. We won't know what works until we can test the skills again. --Fyren 06:13, 28 August 2006 (CDT) The cost has been reduced to 5e on 9/22, making this skill incredibly viable. However, the attribute has been changed to Leadership, probably to prevent Bonders from double-bonding. --Zinger314 09:27, 23 September 2006 (CDT) This triggers on Illusionary Weaponry. Now does it work on Life-Steal....hmm. Wow IW interesting.. if this works on sacrifice.. whoo baby this is gonna be interesting. Doubtful tho, IW IS damage, just armor ignoring. (Not a fifty five 03:36, 24 September 2006 (CDT)) This is really durable, as it's a skill and not an enchantment... Hmm, if a monk uses life bond on a paragon, and balth spirit on himself, and the paragon keeps angelic bond up on the monk, infinite energy for the monk? (transfers damage back and forth, triggering Balth every time it goes back to the monk) -- 17:35, 22 November 2006 (CST) :Note that Life Bond only triggers off of damage from an attack. In the case you proposed, the para would take damage, get it halved by the life bond, and then take half of whatever the monk suffered from the life bond, as well. Doubtful, see the talk on Balthazar's pendulum (Not a fifty five 20:04, 22 November 2006 (CST)) Of note is the fact that Shield of Absorption's(SoA) increasing damage reduction will trigger off of damage dealt to the Paragon via Angelic Bond. If the enemy is mainly utilizing AoE damage, or DoTs, SoA quickly reaches the point where all damage is reduced to 0. If multiple Angelic Bonds are maintained, it is quite possible to mitigate a large sum of damage. The downside to the multiple bonds is that, during the downtime between SoA recasts and the short period after reapplying SoA, before it gains power, the Paragon is liable to be killed due to the possibility of receiving 350% damage. I doubt any of this would be too useful in a PvP setting, due to the nature of single-target spikes, but the potential exists in PvE. --KeeseroGuan 23:35, 22 November 2006 (CST) Acquisition I just can't find that mission. I took Melloni's Way(Kourna trip) instead of Koss way(Vabbi trip). Is there some way I can play both or something to access this mission? --Spura 15:31, 2 November 2006 (CST) :Dasha Vestibule isn't the Koss mission, it's the second Margrid mission. Unfortunately, unless there's another boss that hasn't been found yet, I believe you need to finish the campaign and then recruit Margrid the Sly in Throne of Secrets before you can do the Dasha Vestibule mission. -- Gordon Ecker 03:57, 6 November 2006 (CST) ::Actually, you may enter the mission by joining the party of another player that has Margrid. Beating the campaign is not necessary. Vyldan 16:59, 18 November 2006 (CST) Test? What happens if there are 4 paras all casting this one on the next? does every one of them take the same amount of damage? if so, this could be very cexy with eal party and Light of Deliverance :D 64.12.116.137 23:37, 16 January 2007 (CST) :It's more likely that the actual target of the damage takes half, the other player takes half of that half, the next player in the chain takes half of that damage, etc. :So, If you had 4 players, the first would take 50%, the next 25%, the next 12.5% and the last one also 12.5% (Seeing as no-one would've cast it on him) --mer 07:16, 1 February 2007 (CST) ::I tried a similar test before, with varying webs of angelic bond, and the total damage suffered by the 3-4 paras was more than the original, full hit. (Using Wild Blow for a constant damage) Ruricu 14:29, 29 June 2007 (CDT) :::Testing just now, I could not get it to increase total damage taken among three people with any configuration. Whenever damage is split, it's always divided up so that the sum is the same as the original damage dealt. --Fyren 16:23, 29 June 2007 (CDT) Update I updated the skill activation time and casting time per Feb 9th permanent skill change. --Nightslayer 16:51, 9 February 2007 (CST) I don't understand, why the nerf to this of all Parry skills? Zaboomafoo 21:39, 9 February 2007 (CST) Zergway, I guess. The cast time is stupid though, this should have a 1/2 or 1/4 cast like other protection skills (except Life Bond, which is maintained anyway)172.203.98.155 11:02, 14 February 2007 (CST) stupid update....--InfestedHydralisk 20:10, 19 February 2007 (CST) I don't get it Why is this skill good? I don't see it... sure it doesn't have an upkeep, but it has no damage reduction... Just explain why this is good. [[User:frvwfr2|'frvwfr2']] (talk)( ) 19:47, 8 June 2007 (CDT) :It's nice when spikes knock out 1/2 the hp of 2 people rather having one drop. M s4 20:00, 8 June 2007 (CDT) :It's not removable. --Fyren 20:20, 8 June 2007 (CDT) Angelic Bond vs. Life Bond Angelic Bond Pros *Is a skill, not an enchantment. (Can't be removed) *No energy degeneration. (Easier, energy-wise, to maintain on many allies) *Paragons have higher armor and are concentrated on less (unless discovered to be the bonder) *Works on everything. Cons *Elite. (Can't bring Life Barrier to further reduce damage) *No damage reduction. (Needs a monk or a self-heal to heal damage) *Can't be removed by caster. (In case one bond is causing a huge problem) *Finite duration. (Harder to keep track of bonds) Life Bond Pros *Very easy to maintain on several allies. (coordination-wise) *Damage reduction deals with most damage. *Non-elite. Can be supplemented with Elites like Life Barrier, Zealous Benediction, etc. *Can be removed by the caster in a pinch situation. *Lasts until removed. *Recast easily. Cons *Energy degeneration requires energy management. *Easy to strip. *Monks are less durable than Paragons and more likely to be targeted by spike teams. *Only works on attacks. Feel free to correct any of these points. In my opinion, Angelic Bond wins out in coordinated teams (GvG, TA, HA) while Life Bond wins out in RA, etc. Reasons for this: *Enchantment Removal is more common in team PvP. *A healer to deal with AngBond damage is not always available in RA and other random situations. Anyone else have anything to add? CSM20:45, 9 June 2007 (CDT) :Angelic bond works with non-attacks. Only noob teams have trouble figuring out that there is an angelic bonder on the enemy team. M s4 21:56, 9 June 2007 (CDT) ::gg I missed that one. CSM Angelic Bond is unstrippable. Fin. — Skuld 11:23, 20 June 2007 (CDT) :::::SEED OF LIFE TRIGGERS ON EVERY HIT TO WHOEVER YOU BONDED :D ::::::Target other ally. I fail to see what difference bonds make here. Just imagine, every time anyone you bonded (everyone) gets hit, everyone in your party gains 32 HP! 69.141.233.219 14:02, 23 June 2007 (CDT) :Find me a way to use a target other ally on yourself and I'll believe you. CSM ::Note that Angelic Bond is under Leadership and Seed of Life requires Divine Favor. This would be a team combination. --Carmine 22:13, 11 August 2007 (CDT) Prot. Spirit Does this work with prot. spirit, cuz if it does,u can be 55hp bonder or something Compatibility How does this skill work with union? Cast this on the spirit, get something to damage you or the spirit. Does the spirit instantly vaporize with a ton of 0's on your screen?76.2.19.31 22:20, 30 August 2007 (CDT) Useless Useless elite. You will find almost no one using it. --Lann 15:19, 10 September 2007 (CDT) :^noob lol. Second that = Double noob! Halves damage, it will essentialy stop a spike, having time to heal, relieves monk pressure. Plus, your a paragon who wants to attack you when there are monks to kill. Also I remind you unlike enchantments this is unseen by enemies, unless they see you use it, so they wont spike you unless one of them somehow misses clicking on the monk and clicks you, or see's you in the air using it, than the rest of your party will kill the other team. Also name a more usefull paragon elite, "incoming" lolz, this is a semi-spammable version of it, and the only surffring is you get some dammage. This is clearly a highly usfull paragon elite, but underused because of the dammage part. This dammage can easily be contradicted after the monk is healed of his spike, by the seccond monk, assuming this is the hall of heros. Also bear I remind you that if your monk is using dark escape, this creates 1/4 dammage. So henceforth this is a great spike-defence for large scale PvP in which you have more than one monk, and this may certainly be used in Random Arenas, although with a lower success rate, because if you do get with a monk, if they devert pressure on the monk, the monk will than focus on you, and with a base 80 armor monk healing, and a possible additional 10 armor from centurions insignia, you wont die. If you bothered to read this all, spread the word, but don't overuse or it will get nerfed.--24.47.41.80 01:40, 22 April 2008 (UTC) :It's still decent, but the fact that it isn't a Shout, has a 2 second activation time, and costs 10 energy makes it a little hard to use when you want to spam it. For PvE, the Imbagon is generally better, but in PvP and for Heroes, I'm sure this skill will save plenty of lives. I'm still working on that Hero build, though. -Mike 01:53, 22 April 2008 (UTC) its actually not that useless since ive added a spin from the stoneflesh aura paragon build of the old days and it works well in HM ill show the stats/ percentage +Angelic Protection=bonding? bond alot of peeps, and pop angelic protection on. no net damage for you. i totally disagree with that revert. ~ [[User:Zamanee|'Zamanee']] ( ) 20:14, 11 September 2007 (CDT) : For 10 seconds, any time target other ally takes more than 250...130 damage per second, that ally is healed for any damage over that amount. Zulu Inuoe 02:55, 2 October 2007 (UTC) Adrenaline buildup When the Paragon who casted the bond takes damage through it, does this add to his adrenaline buildup? :Only at the usual rate of 1 Adrenaline per 10% Hp lost. Zulu Inuoe 03:52, 22 January 2008 (UTC) Multiple Casters I just tested if more than one paragon casts this would they all split the dammage on the Isle of the Nameless, and it was proven true, even though there was only one angelic bond listed under enchantments, it definatly further reduced the dammage of the recipient. I'm now adding this as a note.--24.47.41.80 19:10, 22 April 2008 (UTC) :I don't understand your lingo old chap! + Talk 19:11, 22 April 2008 (UTC) ::Indeed, context bound language ftl-- - (Talk/ ) 19:12, 22 April 2008 (UTC) Ok i'll dumb-myself down for you. If one chanting guy casts this on one noob, than another chanting guy casts it on the same noob. Than that noob will be even harder to kill if no one casted this, or if just one casted this. Understand?--24.47.41.80 14:34, 23 April 2008 (UTC) :In other words, a character with 2 instances of Angelic Bond on him would take only 1/4 damage, and three Bonds would be 1/8, correct? 14:41, 23 April 2008 (UTC) ::Yup. --- -- (s)talkpage 14:45, 23 April 2008 (UTC) You guys haven't taken the skill to it's limit yet. If you have for example, 2 paragons that put Angelic Bond on each other, half of the damage transferred by Angelic Bond will transfer back and forth until it's 0. Useful for triggering such enchantments as Balthazar's Spirit and Healing Seed... Oh, and don't worry, it's hard to abuse due to high cast time and high energy, chances of all paragon team with Angelic Bonds are pretty low (or I'm just letting this slip to see how it works out :P). --D1m 13:24, 22 September 2008 (UTC) Stacking with "There's Nothing to Fear!" would that mean that the damage the caster receives is reduced as well? Say you cast Angelic Bond on an ally, and they would have taken 50 damage. That damage is first divided between the two of you (25 each), and then reduced by ~35%, so you would both only take 16 damage. [[User:St. Michael|'ــѕт.']][[user_talk:St. Michael|'мıкε']] 12:46, 4 October 2008 (UTC) :I don't see why they wouldn't. But the order doesn't matter, whether you take 35 and half it or half it and take 35% is the same. GW-Viruzzz 13:54, 4 October 2008 (UTC) ::Owait, what I meant is that the damage would be reduced by TNtF, and then halved, and then reduced by TNtF again. So instead of 16 damage taken, it would be 16(100-35)/100= 10 damage. I just tested it though (myself as a Paragon, and General Morgahn, so I had to check our healths after we got hit by the Master of Lightning's Lightning Orb), and we both took 31 damage. So, I was wrong, anyway. >.> [[User:St. Michael|'ــѕт.']][[user_talk:St. Michael|'мıкε']] 15:09, 4 October 2008 (UTC) This sucks now An anti-spike skill with a 2-second cast that isn't even a chant so it can't return energy. Dead weight 90% of the time. Paragons got crap this month. 07:53, 12 December 2008 (UTC) :That is true. I do not even have a Paragon and I was disappointed at the skills. They went through buffing almost every other class and just missed Paragon or something. Tenetke Mekko 08:45, 12 December 2008 (UTC) ::Missed em? More like nerfed 'em as usual. It's not a regular-update unless they nerf Goons --'ilr' :::Well didn't want to put that obviously they hate Paragons and decided to stick it to them again. Don't get me wrong I am no fan of paragons, they kind of look girly the way they carry their spear. Still I think they have lost it when they continue to beat the class with the nerf hammer. Tenetke Mekko 10:40, 12 December 2008 (UTC) ::::Fail, should be 1/4 cast then it would actually be able to fulfill it's intended function - antispike for HA -- [[User:Taki_Fujiko|''Taki Fujiko]] 14:52, 12 December 2008 (UTC) :::::All you need to do is predict an incoming spike 2 seconds before it happens :P We need a woman's intuition. Silver Sunlight (T/ ) 15:10, 12 December 2008 (UTC) ::::::Seems to me like this skill negates the need to "predict" a spike at all, at least in PvE - use it ahead of time, and for 10 seconds you're protected from a spike no matter which party member gets targeted. I can see that being very useful in some HM areas. —Dr Ishmael 15:43, 12 December 2008 (UTC) :::::::In other news, Paragons are a broken class by default, so it's good they didn't get any new imba toys to abuse us with. This may possibly be useful against some of those wtf-ohko bosses. (T/ ) 18:03, 12 December 2008 (UTC) ::::::::They should start buffing paragons instead of nerfing them all the time, I meam soon there going to be so useless unless your going for survior, at least they can be helpful right now--Eb22m2 20:08, 12 December 2008 (UTC) :::::::::This thing is now worse than Divine intervention: less healing, more energy cost and longer cast time, and Div int isn't elite. What was A-net smoking?-- [[User:El_Nazgir|'El_Nazgir']] 07:38, 13 December 2008 (UTC) ::::::::::This is unstrippable, and could basically stop any spike if it had a 1 second activation time in the right hands. [[User:St. Michael|'ــѕт.]][[user_talk:St. Michael|мıкε']] 14:23, 13 December 2008 (UTC) (Resetting Indent)Yes, but the problem is, this is still just an elite version of a monk skill that as far as I know nobody uses in PvE, ever. This looks much more like a PvP oriented change, and in that light is probably a pretty good reworking. I'm just disappointed to see this skill changed; I was using it literally right up until they(in my eyes) beat it to death with the nerf bat. I'd like to see a split skill, and the PvE version reverted. Fade into soup 18:47, 13 December 2008 (UTC) :And both versions with a 1 second activation, tbh. [[User:St. Michael|'ــѕт.]][[user_talk:St. Michael|мıкε']] 19:04, 13 December 2008 (UTC) People who say Paragons are underpowered need to PvP more. And I don't mean RA, AB, etc. (T/ ) 05:47, 14 December 2008 (UTC) :I'll PvP when GW2 gets here and gives us a real motivation to PvP in a more open venue for stuff that actually ties in with the rest of the game. Till then, I want my old versions of Incoming and Angelic back darnit >:\ --'ilr' (14,Dec.'08) Change It Back! The new functionality for Angelic Bond is much more useful in a PvP situation - in PvE it's much less practical. Reading the developer's notes, their reasoning behind the change is ''"Angelic Bond was either frustrating for opponents or undesirable for those using it. We've now made it so can protect well from spikes but crumbles in heavier pressure situations." - I personally enjoyed how it functioned before, and if its previous functionality was reserved as a PvE version of Angelic Bond, opponents will no longer feel frustrated. This satisfies its practical uses as a PvE skill and its new functionality will work in PvP. To re-iterate, I propose that PvE and PvP versions be created of Angelic Bond. Angelic Bond (PvE): Elite Skill. For '''10...30...35' seconds, all damage suffered by target other ally is divided equally with you.'' Angelic Bond (PvP): Elite Skill. For '''10' seconds, the next time an ally within earshot would take fatal damage, that damage is negated and that ally is healed for 20...164...200 Health. Angelic Bond ends on all other allies.'' I hope ANet takes this into consideration. --Shao526 05:44, 14 December 2008 (UTC) :I preferred the old version. You know why? Because Diamond Djinn are total wimps now. :C I think your suggestion has merit, too - PvE is really the only place that "bonding" works (far too risky in most PvP). In PvP, there are coordinated spikes to take out one opponent, and the new Angelic Bond frustrates that (for one spike cycle at least); the old one was a hit-and-miss unless you were good at guessing who was to be spiked. In PvE monsters either spike the whole party or do nothing because you put up prots like Shelter etc. (T/ ) 05:50, 14 December 2008 (UTC) Thanks for the support Entropy. Many didn't like the old version and ANet claimed the effects of the Elite were "undesirable" - all I have to say is that those people who did not like the Elite should not use it. The old functionality of the Elite may have created an advantage because it cannot be stripped, but unlike other types of bonding the damage split is not reduced in any way which balanced out its functionality. Also, all other types of bonds, by definition, include some type of relationship between the bonder and the ally being bound. (e.g. Life Bond, Symbiotic Bond, etc.) Now, this skill may as well be called Angelic Intervention. While many may not have liked this Elite, I considered it my signature and am very disappointed that it was changed. I can only hope that ANet will realize that this change was more of a nerf than a change. While it affects everyone in earshot, it truly only affects one ally and is not worth its recharge time. It's not even a bond any more, and if people are going to complain about Angelic Bond, they should complain about Symbiotic Bond as well which is more powerful and not even an Elite. For the sake of the term Bond, I hope its previous/old functionality is restored because Angelic Bond was a beautiful Elite and one I almost always carried. --Shao526 01:25, 16 December 2008 (UTC) : Symbiotic Bond's fine because you can only target a weak sauce NPC which you have fairly little control of. I agree with you though, the new sets not a bond its an intervention. Needs to be reverted. Deviant Priest 03:19, 16 December 2008 (UTC) Possible Rework Function Angelic Bond: Elite Skill. For '''10...30...35' seconds, all damage suffered by target other ally is divided equally with you. The damage you receive in this way is increased by 15...10...5.'' One of ANet's concerns was that some players who were facing against someone who was under the effects of Angelic Bond would get frustrated because AB is an effective way of reducing damage. Because AB has a relatively quick recharge time, changing the functionality as suggested above will make the Paragon more cautious as to when the skill should be used, and on who. In all honesty I would just prefer the skill to be reverted to its original form, but I will be much happier with a nerf similar to what I suggested as opposed to the completely different function it now has that does not even pertain to bonding. --Shao526 09:39, 19 December 2008 (UTC) :I think this skill was changed because its primary use was placing unstrippable protection on key NPCs, such as Master Architect Gunther, or perhaps the Guild Lord. It really should receive a PvE-PvP split version, for the people who used it legitimately in dungeons and the like. 09:42, 19 December 2008 (UTC) ::Nah, it's b/c it's one of the last functioning Protective elites Goons had left. And we all know Anet just can't leave those alone. If it really had anything to do with key targets, then they'da just decreased the range that the bond would still function at so that Area of Effect skills could counter it. They're atleast that smart... but more importantly, they're just plain Malicious, and Goons are always their whipping boys :p --'ilr' Alternate Function Suggestion Angelic Bond: Elite Skill. For '''10...30...35' seconds, all damage suffered by target other ally is divided equally with you. You'' (the paragon user) cannot be the target of enchantments. Shao526 16:01, 21 December 2008 (UTC) :WTH is with proposing extra drawbacks? The original version already had a serious drawback... it couldn't be canceled. -- It WAS A DEATHPACT. This isn't rocket science since it doesn't stack. Look here, it's real simple to balance... :Angelic Bond: Elite Skill. For 5....12..15 seconds, you move 33% faster and all damage suffered by target other ally is divided equally with you. (This skill ends early if target ally receives damage outside of half the distance of your shout range.) :...Sins, Mezrs, even Hammer Wars could easily disrupt this bond just by splitting the Bond Duo up. And if the Duo sticks together then they both get Nuked by AoEs. Likewise, the Goon could cancel the Bond just by running away which would also address the DeathPact issue that Anet claims was the other reason this skill was unwieldy. ...Not that they really care... --'ilr' (22,Dec.'08) Ira, I think that's an excellent alternative function. Consider posting your ideas here (Official Wiki Skill Feedback form) and here (Official Wiki Skill Discussion area) which will strengthen the chances of our ideas being heard. :Thanks for the endorsement but the last thing I want to do now is start telling them how to micromanage a dated game. I know how the process works...it's slow and painfully Bureaucratic. But I will stop by there and make some kind of case --'ilr'